kerdi membrane over cement board
First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Also - use a good thinset. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. 173 upvotes. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. the cost of the tile job. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Is this overkill? It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Will use the Schluter Shower system. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Yup! The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. No, that doesn't sound right. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. There are numerous ways to do this. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? I'm thirsty. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. When installing KERDI with . This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Do you have any pictures? It worked well - just like wallpapering. We want that inside corner able to move. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Hi.I have a unique situation. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. The shower is ready for tile. Thanks to all for the feedback. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? It fell right off? What do you mean it doesn't adhere? What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Maybe try another brand of thinset? We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? 4. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. ;). x 48 in. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Redgard is a similar product. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. In . The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. . It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. You are wise to use a cement board. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Let's start! #3 This is a DIY site. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. It only takes a minute to sign up. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. that's home depot homeowner installation method. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Good luck with your project. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. x 96 in. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? In my. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
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