pagan continuity hypothesis
But I mentioned that we've become friends because it is the prerogative of friends to ask hard questions. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. So this is interesting. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. These sources suggest a much greater degree of continuity with pre-Christian values and practice than the writings of more . Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. And for those of you who have found my line of questioning or just my general presence tedious, first of all, I fully appreciate that reaction. Nazanin Boniadi BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. An actual spiked wine. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? It's not just Cana. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. What about all these early Christians themselves as essentially Jews? What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. Some number of people have asked about Egypt. And so in the epilogue, I say we simply do not know the relationship between this site in Spain and Eleusis, nor do we know what was happening at-- it doesn't automatically mean that Eleusis was a psychedelic rite. I understand more papers are about to be published on this. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. To sum up the most exciting parts of the book: the bloody wine of Dionysius became the bloody wine of Jesus - the pagan continuity hypothesis - the link between the Ancient Greeks of the final centuries BC and the paleo-Christians of the early centuries AD - in short, the default psychedelic of universal world history - the cult of . For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. BRIAN MURARESKU: It just happens to show up. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. I really tried. I see something that's happening to people. And so even within the New Testament you see little hints and clues that there was no such thing as only ordinary table wine. These Native American church and the UDV, both some syncretic form of Christianity. The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. But if the original Eucharist were psychedelic, or even if there were significant numbers of early Christians using psychedelics like sacrament, I would expect the representatives of orthodox, institutional Christianity to rail against it. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition? CHARLES STANG: OK. So it is already happening. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. What does God mean? And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". Where are the drugs? And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. . And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. And I think that that's the real question here. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. Including, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe, which is why I mentioned that when we first started chatting. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. There were formula. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. Because they talk about everything else that they take issue with. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? The big question is, did any of these recipes, did any of this wine spiking actually make its way into some paleo-Christian ceremony. Maybe for those facing the end of life. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. BRIAN MURARESKU: OK. Now, I mentioned that Brian and I had become friends. . They found a tiny chalice this big, dated to the second century BC. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. I want to thank you for putting up with me and my questions. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? I'm not. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. But in any case, Ruck had his career, well, savaged, in some sense, by the reaction to his daring to take this hypothesis seriously, this question seriously. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. CHARLES STANG: OK.
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